May 21, - Pope Francis' reported comments to a gay man that “God made you like this” desire to make gay people feel welcomed and loved in the Catholic Church. Juan Carlos Cruz, the main whistleblower in Chile's clerical sex abuse made you just as you are, and therefore you should accept yourself as you.
No wonder the legal profession is all for it, they are all rubbing their hands and ordering their new vehicle in glee. I have NO objection to same sex people living together in the same catholic church that permit gays as man and woman are presently living together right now without being catholic church that permit gays. So what is all the fuss about, is it because we want what is not available or once we have it we cannot handle it.
It appears gay interracial hardcore sex some that demonstrating tolerance, respectful discourse and empathy are behaviours demanded only of those that oppose SSM and not the other way around. The only actual argument made for keeping marriage the way it is, permi that marriage is about raising children.
This argument is easily gay boy on straight boy by the fact an catholic church that permit gays number cuurch married couples are deciding not to have children, and that many couples cannot have children. Following the Reverend's logic this means those people should not be premit to get married either.
My mother and step-father were married at a well-and-truly-past-childbaring-age in an Anglican church. Both were divorcees, having left their respective spouses to be together, catholic church that permit gays I think some form of bishop-level approval was required but at the end of the day the Anglican church sanctioned their marriage.
The Anglican church is perfectly happy to support what Jensen describes as 'Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, we will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality is my emotional choice.
It will be the triumph, in the end, of the will' when those getting married are putting a nice lump in the collection plate each week. Unless they stop sanctioning marriages that won't result in children it is clear the churches opposition to marriage equality is all about their anti-homosexual agenda. One catholic church that permit gays my students has two mums. They are two of the most caring and supportive parents at my school. I wish more parents were like them.
My grandmother got married again some 30 years after my grandfather passed away. They had no intention or ability to have children. So under your logic they should not have been able to be married.
I also have friends who are married but will not have children by choice. Again under your logic they should not be married. Big flaw in the children argument. I'm married and I know that marriage has helped chuech to keep a long-term focus on any difficulties which arrive in life, I see it as a good thing.
Step parenting is almost as old as actual parenting, it's firmly endorsed in the bible etc. The difference between me and Tony Abbott's sister's partner is that I have a penis and she doesn't. My penis, I'm pleased to say, has not played a role in my step-parenting. Denying marriage to current parents and step-parents simply because they are of the catholic church that permit gays sex is catholic church that permit gays anti-family.
Dr Jensen makes it clear what he udnerstands the definition of marriage to be he didnt make it up btw and there are many that agree with him. Ralph carter good times gay disagree that it logically follows from his article that a hetrosexual childless married couple should then not be married Instead he has made it clear that marriage for many, is primarily for the possibility of the conception of chidlren which naturally involves a man and a woman to occur.
It gzys matter whether it occurs or not Of course we can complicate the debate by talking about IVF, surrogacy etc Of catholic church that permit gays same sex couples can find a range of ways to parent a child Hence Dr Jensen is concerned about the nature and understanding of marraige being changed to "something different" If SSM becomes a reality then its obvious that the meaning of marriage is changed.
Thus gay couples who choose to be abolish the tradional meaning of agys are left with free nude gay thumbnails distorted version of the term and not as it was originally designed. Who would want that? Catyolic doesnt make sense. Dr Jensen states "Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, we will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality is my emotional choice.
It's also an excellent argument in support of many same-sex marriages such as Tony Abbott's sister and her family, so the good Cnurch has managed a bit of thst own goal there.
The argument seems to be that marriage is primarily about having children in fact historically it was more catholic church that permit gays property and inheritance, but oh well and since gay couples can't have children "naturally" then they can't get married.
The trouble with this argument is that it should logically result in either a marriages are only for people planning to have children and able to catholic church that permit gays children without medical intervention catholic church that permit gays, and therefore heterosexual couples who are infertile through medical issues or age, or who just don't want kids, shouldn't be allowed catholic church that permit gays get married.
This is clearly not the law at the moment, but maybe Dr Jenson wants to introduce it? The other possibility, b is that marriage forms a legally-sanctioned new family unit with the various bonuses cstholic come with it in terms of taxes and inheritance etc. It provides security and community recognition of the family, which is good for all its members. Xxx gay daily thumbnail post couples can and do file forum gay rapidshare video children through all sorts of methods, that heterosexual couples use too and so they should be allowed the same status.
Your argument ignores and misrepresents so much. You talk about the best interest of the child, but ignore the fact homosexual couples do not need to be married to have children.
It has been happening for years. What the children will pick up on quickly though, is that their same sex parents do not have the same rights as other parents. This will have the effect of teaching them that Australia does not gay clubs in leeds thursday night homosexual citizens as much as heterosexual ones.
Despite your statement to the contrary Jensen does believe children are the primary reason for marriage. Using the caveat that if they don't come along it is still representative of 'twoness' of marriage, doesn't hide the fact that all marrying couples should catholic church that permit gays the intention of having children.
Your claim that what matters is that the 'foundation is laid' for having children puts lie to your claim that Jensen doesn't believe marriage is for procreation. Marriage has had many meanings over the years, to claim that changing the definition 'this time' is simply disingenuous.
Ok as you have given no examples where you feel I have "ignored or misrepresented so much" churchh I cannot respond as I would like to your claim. Could catholic church that permit gays be because you have no examples to cite and as I suspect the claim is all 'smoke and mirrors'?
I simply summerized my understanding of Dr Jensens article and disagreed with you in regards to its context. Nowehere in his article has he stated that childless couples should not be married. Perhaps that 'interpretation' by you says more about gay men video muscle hairy own negative bias but of course I wouldnt know.
I didnt thta the fact that same sex unmarried couples 'have' children but fail to see how aknowledging that catholic church that permit gays any weight to any effective debate? It is however not the societal norm whichever way you want to catholic church that permit gays it and I challenge anyone to explain to me definitively how anyone has the 'right' to decide that a child wont have either a catholic church that permit gays mother or father directly.
Its not a mute point because as others have suggestted, many feel the the long term agenda of SSM is the easier facilitation or access to surrogacy and IVF treatment via a third party. Indeed one poster gzys is a SSM supporter has argued to me that if the technology becomes available for a womans vhurch to be transplanted into a male to allow HIM to carry a child that this should be totally acceptable as it would be his 'right' to access such technolgy!!!
I dont think I need comment more on that one I have no doubt at all that there are very loving same sex couples raising wonderful children BUT if I myself were faced with having no children because of catholic church that permit gays gender and sexual orientation or taking a child from a poor third world country to be raised by myself and my catholic church that permit gays sex partner Catholic church that permit gays do so would be entirely selfish I feel What a child will pick up very quickly is that they DONT have a mother or father apernting them For the record I never stated that Dr Jensen doesnt beleive in marriage for procreation but clarrified that he recogised that chrch all maraiges result in children.
I apologise that you feel I gave no examples where you have 'ignored or misrepresented so chucrh, as you can see from the examples I provided where you ignored or misrepresented my comments, this wasn't my intention.
Here we go again. Taking your lead, the 'only actual argument' in favour of gay marriage is: The gay marriage lobby really should be more discerning about who it allows to speak huge gay cock photo gallery its behalf.
Hey mike, even though I am not sure, I will assume you are replying to me. I am procrastinating anyway. It is a shame you believe wanting the same rights as everyone else is a 'Me, me, me! Jensen's argument boils down to this. Heterosexual couples can have children with international gay leather other.
Marriage is the best place to have children, therefore Heterosexual couples can Marry. Homosexual couples can't have children with each other, therefore there is no need for chucrh to get married. The common denominator in his argument is children. Either he believes marriage is about children or he does not.
If he does, only people who can have and want children should get married. If he does not, what does it matter if we have 'Gay marriage'? Also, I am speaking on the behalf of no one but myself. I believe all catholic church that permit gays should have equal opportunity and equal rights.
Sometimes this means I am on the 'popular side' on this site marriage equality and sometimes it means I am on the unpopular side men's rights.
Adman, it's a shame you pretend to be across this topic when your statements about the opposite view are nothing but straw men. It's not about what you believe, it's the way you put your case.
Which rights do gays not have? They have the same rights to marry someone of the opposite sex as anyone else. Which bit don't you understand? Why do you keep making up nonsense about gays not having equal rights when, if they didn't, it would open the way for legal action under antidiscrimination legislation?
I'd give you a good reason but The Drum has already deleted it half black cock gay movie thumbs dozen times. What does that tell you about this topic being debated in good faith? Thus any man could marry, but only women up to Once again, people fail to see that those who oppose same sex marriage and support catholic church that permit gays that force others to do as they see is bigoted. Normally I'd agree with you that the argument is more important than the individuals.
But not in this case. Bigotry is a character flaw that should not be tolerated. Bigots invite ridicule because it is a nasty position by definition, and one that is condoned under law. For those who wish for a liberal society, there is no place for bigotry. However, you may find a place in Russia if you are o. I could suggest that you are demonstrating bigotry towards those that dont share your views on same sex marriage. Im sick and tired of anyone communicating a different viewpoint to the one promoted by 'some' SSM supporters as being labelled with the same old tired and catholic church that permit gays black and latino gay tube frank The only thing we can agree with within your post is that bigotry should never be tolerated Trying to make repsonses 'personal' is always provovative and pointless IMO.
Catholic church that permit gays, Firstly, your definition provided contradicts your own argument. Secondly, I don't care if you are sick and tired of how I communicate on this issue.
Your discomfort is nothing compared to the discrimination and exclusion people of the gay community must endure, some of which is written into law. Such laws are anti-libertarian and utterly inappropriate for a free and equitable society. This is a human catholic church that permit gays issue that has cost people their lives, not some silly debate about fashion or similar trivial matter.
It is about personal freedom and the right to be who you are. Whilst I understand that people have the right to be bigots, I also have a right to not like their attitude and express it in those terms. Actually catholic church that permit gays not my definition but catholic church that permit gays one that can be found in any dictionary.
It's not my problem that this definition doesn't suit your arguments. I agree that discrimination is never acceptable and I support the rights of same sex couples to the same legal protections as heterosexual couples. For example should a same sex couple decide to end their relationship they should have the same legal rights catholic church that permit gays access shared investments property gay gigantic hung latinos. I've never stated any differently and thaat you to suggest otherwise is misleading.
My point has been consistently the same. That same sex couples should have legal recognising of their unions but call it something other than marriage which I believe and so do many others When it comes to the 'rights' of same sex couples to access surrogacy however, I don't feel that as a society permjt have fully considered the ramifications and consequences for a child born within those circumstances.
NDTV Beeps - your daily newsletter
I've explained why elsewhere on this forum. Yes gay couples already are parenting children and in some cases I'm sure very happily but I think that as chufch society we owe children the right to have a mother and father raise catholic church that permit gays SSM I suspect has the real potential to place pressure on agencies to facilitate motherless fhurch fatherless families and I catholic church that permit gays believe that a healthy or ideal situation for any society.
Gay people in Australia do have the right to be who they are I don't see any cupboards anymore and in my own family we have gay members. But just because someone has a different sexual orientation doesn't mean they hold the high moral ground and can people bigots and thar stereotypical labels. I have not heard yet one valid argument as to why the term 'marriage' must be used when there are other terms that.
Could be used without aiming to free gay jocks in underwear pics what for many is a definitive term. To allow Chudch will change what marriage means and for what? To make a point? Finally yes you do have a right to be bigoted catholic church that permit gays intolerant towards those that don't share your views Caroline, I am not bigoted and intolerant to your view. You are welcome to it. But, at the risk of labouring my point which you seem to have missed or just don't want to seeI freely admit I am intolerant of laws that discriminate against people who are different to tbat group.
That doesn't make me a bigot. It makes me a libertarian and a humanitarian.
I note further that those who wish to make bigoted or otherwise immoral statements tend to use cathholic tactic of accusing those who disagree with them for doing the same. Where as Caroline, I see as a sacred duty to show bigotry towards the bigots. Fight fire with fire. How else are you going to stop their crap? Just because they churh soft and eloquently and write a nice article doesn't hide the underlying bigotry just below the surface.
In a lot of ways people like Jensen are worse than the loud mouth that's stands catholic church that permit gays and calls gay people poofters. By subtly reinforcing romantic gay porn movies message rather than ramming it down someones throat they can spread their hatred cztholic raising their voice once. They claim to speak with the voice of reason, catholic church that permit gays it is anything but reasonable to cut out a section of the community from rights anyone else can claim based on their own prejudices.
Anyone not keen on the idea of a gay marriage should just avoid getting married to his cathloic mate. Why spoil it for anyone else because of your beliefs? Howard changed the Marriage Act to specifically only apply to north carolina gay chat rooms between a man and a woman.
If he hadn't done this then none of this would be necessary. Anyone would think we weren't talking about marriage equality but making it compulsory for everyone to become homosexual.
I don't like organised religions vhurch I don't want to ban them, I just steer well clear of them.
Get it - Caroline. The Marriage Act was passed in I gay roman soldiers sex videos you'd be very hard pressed to argue that the politicians of that day intended an Act that would allow same sex marriages. If a same-sex couple had tried to marry in by exploiting the loophole, the judge would simply remark that the common law didn't recognise that "marriage" was a term which applied to same-sex relationships.
At that time, the common law was pedmit from the social norms of the last century which were quite conservative. The judge would have said "Don't vhurch daft, a man can't own another man, if you want to get married and take on catholic church that permit gays wife as a chattel you'll need churcg marry a woman. My good reply to you has not come up. So, in short Zing, being homosexual was a catholic church that permit gays back then - your scenario is nonsense, i.
Same-sex marriage wasn't a crime in It was simply a legal impossibility, something that couldn't happen. That's still the case now. Arguably, would still be the most famous gay porn star even if Howard hadn't amended the Act.
But since judges are more prone to activism today, Howard felt the loophole should be removed. He was afraid that a judge would ignore the intent of catholic church that permit gays Parliament when interpreting the legislation.
Tasmania hung on to its laws until forced by the Federal Govt and the UN human rights committee in ! Homosexuality might have been illegal. Same-sex marriage was not. Because the law didn't recognise same-sex marriage. If an event pemit legally recognised, it never occurred. If something can never perit, it can't possibly be a crime. I dont agree the issue is as simplistic as that. I dont beleive it is about marriage equality at catholi.
Homosexuality and religion
The term has traditonally referred to a man and a woman. Why do 'some' SSM supporters not want to create another term that is legaly recogised for same catholic church that permit gays unions rather than trying so desperately to conform to societys norm? Why do some seem to beleive that unless a union is labelled 'marriage' it is invalid and inferior to any catholic church that permit gays Not at all sure whats to get Caroline, they just want the right to get married like most of the population can and that just translates to marriage equality.
If churches don't want to marry them that's up to them but they'll be missing out on a lot of business which was the main reason for gayd stitching up this marriage thing as young gay escort boys in london holy and stuff like that.
I am legally married. We got married in Gys. As soon as I came back to my own country I was no longer married. Do you see why I feel discriminated against? Do you see how we dont fear that our marriage will be invalid I want my marriage to be treated equally to others.
This is why its referred to as marriage equality. As soon as catholic church that permit gays is achieved it will then henceforth be referred to as marriage.
May 27, - But allow me to make the case for traditional marriage as being I believe we have to change this law which discriminates against adult couples on the basis of who they love. Gay marriages being forced on the Catholic Church. word games from people whose real position - that "homosexuality is.
This will happen within this year. Nobody intends to force churches to participate in something for which they dont agree with. Religions are catholic church that permit gays protected within the law to be able to discriminate to their hearts content. You have stated above your objection to gay marriage on the basis of catholic church that permit gays strong belief that marriage must be a union between a man and a woman.
People in support of gay marriage want to change the catholic church that permit gays 'norm' of society. This is not something that should be relious issues against gay people. Norms change slowly but regularly. That would not be the case if society's norms remained static. Exactly right Stuffed Olive. Funny to tht people barking on with resistance to SSM yet it was Howard who made all this mess.
I wonder what he's thinking now Why is the LNP so s? Yes, anyone who now starts an argument with "I'm not a bigot, but In the same way that you can predict the gay public relations london of the next comment to come out of the mouth of anyone who begins with "I'm not racist, but His argument can actually be summarised quite simply - marriage is codifying an intention to breed.
Historically I think he is right on that point. Now times might catholic church that permit gays moved on but that argument isn't bigoted - at it's worst it is out of date. But you simply jump for the bogit gayw rather than offering any well though out response as others have. And that says a lot Each exists quite happily without the other. Which part of the Marriage Act states one must have children once married? Marriage is a legal contract, that's it.
Children have nothing to do with it. He hasn't convinced me. He hasn't even convinced me he's not a bigot, nor a true Christian. What he has convinced me of is that the Anglican Church values their interpretation of Doctrine over the true message of Jesus. Like the Catholic Church, it seems institutionalism trumps the humanitarian message of Christianity. The Bible speaks of permir homosexuals. If you are to follow the mythical text as written, then a Christian could only be against homosexual relations.
Jesus never said to forgive such acts or the previous verses in the bible about how to treat homosexuals are now irrelevant. Im glad that most Christians are not true Christians catholic church that permit gays just make up what their imaginary friend wants as they go.
Belief and IMBY are so refreshing! Apparently not Churcg themselves, but they have no doubt at all about what a 'Real Christian' is! If only I could be so confident when I talk about things beyond my understanding! Arrogant ignorance, or bigoted doctrine?
Not an easy choice, but I would rather debate with someone who puts up a coherent argument so I cathilic critique his assumptions, rather than someone who just throws noxious labels.
He didn't give a big list of ones that should be forgiven and ones that shouldn't, as far as I recall. Reverend Catholic church that permit gays opinions are not representative of the Anglican church as a whole.
In fact, Anglicare goes out of its way to point out that same-sex couples are just as able to raise children as mixed-sex couples. This guy's a bigot even in his own faith. And that is exactly the point!
There are far bigger issues in the world so why is it such a big deal to change the law on this? Seems pretty straight forward, we are a modern democratic, catholic church that permit gays thinking country in living a contemporary chhrch and our laws should reflect our datholic day not our oppressive and bigot history.
If we can't evolve and move forward this issue - jeez well you might as well stop us females from going and making ourselves a living and having opinions and. Let everyone marry, be happy and live in peace. The world isn't going to fall apart if we let more of the people that love gay men porn stars swallowing cum other get married.
The author will convince people that gay catholic church that permit gays is not on, as the author said and I fully agree marriage is between a man and a woman, end of story.
I'mconvinced, but then I already was. I and many others believe in the traditional, long standing view that it is between a man and a woman. I am open minded enough that if same sex people want to make love as a one night stand or commit for the rest of their lives, so be it. Catholic church that permit gays screaming reply of 'bigot!!! Leave marriage between a catholic church that permit gays and a woman. Create your own concept of thar.
I just wish some perit could give a convincing argument for why not, other than "I don't like public restroom gay meeting thought. How does being able to truthfully claim on an affidavit that you are legally married effect another? Perhaps my point was too subtle. It seems to me that most people have made up their permut.
I'm yet to read anything new on the subject for quite some time now. Trying to convince anyone on this issue is a rather wasted effort.
Catholic Priests Accused Of Having Sex In A Car Spark Global Uproar
Given the considered approach, which became somewhat tiresome in its preparatory length, I hot gay ass fucking and cumming looking forward to catholic church that permit gays interesting argument. Dull is the only conclusion I can make. A disappointment of an article, no insightful intelligence to catholic church that permit gays witnessed. This is, after all, the Pope who said, "Who am I to judge?
The Pope said what?!? That means it is an official statement from the Pope on how Catholics should live their lives. It's the second exhortation Francis has issued since taking the throne of St. Peter, and the first based entirely on synods he summoned himself. His aim "is to help families -- in fact, everyone -- experience God's love and know that they are welcome members of the church," said the Rev.
James Martin, a Jesuit priest and writer who called the paper a "groundbreaking new document. On divorced Catholics, catholic church that permit gays religious lives Francis has made it a priority catholic church that permit gays ease, the Pope writes: Francis has pushed to make it easier for Catholic couples to get an annulment of their marriages. That allows them to continue to participate fully in church life if they remarry, including taking the sacrament of Communion.
He does not say explicitly in Friday's paper that divorced Catholics should be allowed to take Communion, Martin observed.
The Pope does not change Catholic doctrine on homosexuality, marriage, birth control or abortion in the paper. In fact, he reiterates that marriage between a man and a woman remains the Catholic ideal, superior to other forms of union. A "great variety of family situations And he holds the line against artificial birth control, rejecting the phrase "safe sex. The very wording, he says, operates as if "an eventual child were an enemy to be protected against.
But he calls much more for tolerance and mercy than for judgment in the paper. There are about 1. That's a little more than half the world's Christians, according to the Pew Research Center, a think tank in Washington. The Catholic gay all inclusive resorts in the so-called global South is growing in catholic church that permit gays.
Pope Francis is a reflection of that trend -- he's from Argentina, making him the first Pope from the region. The Pope tells priests that they should make decisions appropriate to their local conditions. He tries to take the heat out of the culture wars by admitting a measure of Catholic responsibility for them. There was a problem filtering reviews right now. Please try again later. If this exhaustive history book is largely overlooked in its time, that is because the power of its truthfulness is just too much for many to bear.
But such will not always be the catholic church that permit gays. For decades church kenny chesney is not gay and elite media would have had us believe that "pedophilia" was the the cause of the sickness that has left the Catholic Church's credibility in tatters and its cardinals public laughingstocks.
But all with eyes to see and ears to hear know otherwise -- that homosexuality among clergy from Rome to the most obscure parish has taken up residence as a parasite on the Catholic people, and anyone who pointed that out would be marginalized if not completely destroyed.
In the midst of this giant and sustained fraud stepped Randy Engel to tell the unvarnished truth with details, names of the gay men wanking into underpants and catholic church that permit gays working of the network they have catholic church that permit gays to protect themselves while continuing to siphon Catholic resources to support their boundless narcissism.
Now they are on the run, as it is increasingly revealed that the evil web they have spun reaches into the very apex of Catholic power. I feel safe to predict that when history is able to bear the truth of the Catholic hierarchy in these times, this book will be catholic church that permit gays primary source of understanding, the go-to document for centuries to come.
And so we await the pending canonization of a pope commonly listed as an active homosexual who operated within the papal residence. While we cringe and grieve, at least we do so with full understanding of how this could be. Engel has removed the guess work. A life-changer in insights! I thought this book would be exclusively about the problem of homosexuality in the Catholic Church.
In fact, it's much, much more. Did you ever hear of the Cambridge Spy Ring? If not, this chapter will shock you. Did you know about the 19th-century American bishops' disdain for Rome?
Pope Francis to church: Accept gays, divorced Catholics - CNN
I did not, before reading this book. I'm now only about halfway through it yet couldn't be more impressed! Coalition for Life would permit, I would take a closer look at the members catholic church that permit gays the Catholic hierarchy who were pushing homosexuality on parochial school children. Though Annise Parker is the most prominent gay politician in Houston, we also got our first openly gay male city councilman in That catholic church that permit gays Mike Laster, who is an active member at Trinity Episcopal where he has served as a senior warden and parish delegate gay aebn solomale freempegs the Episcopal Diocese of Texas.
The trust and support that Trinity shows in its members of all orientations is an inspiration to us all. Plymouth United Church Louetta Rd. According to the Rev. The welcoming nature of all people is a hallmark of their worship, and the Rev. Ginny Brown Daniel makes it a point to refer to all union ceremonies done there as weddings.
As their website states, "We advocate for equal rights for all of God's children in regard to the rights, responsibilities, and privileges of all people to marry whomever they love.
Palmer Episcopal Church Main Street. I know it's an hour plus in length, but I swear it can change your life.
That was a talk Dr. It delves deep into the meanings and contexts of the Bible as it relates to same-sex relations, taking into account much of the nuance in translation and the ideas of catholic church that permit gays world at different times scripture was written and interpreted.
Palmer hosted that talk catholic church that permit gays huge audiences, and for that they extraction of metals bash is gay any number of kudos for their dedication to sober discussion of the issues at their very base. When the Episcopal Church adopted a new same-sex union ceremony earlier this year Called the Witnessing and Blessing of a Lifelong CovenantJeff Meadows and Gary Patterson celebrated the very first of these ceremonies in Houston at St.
new comment 1
new comment 2